Podcast notes – Dylan Field (Figma founder) with Elad Gil – AI, crypto, his startup journey

Guest: Dylan Field
Host: Elad Gil

Started Figma at 20, Thiel Fellow

Did some great tech internships
Cofounder Evan was TA at Brown, most brilliant person he knew
Knew he could learn a lot from Evan even if it was a failure

Got Thiel Fellow – $100K over 2 years – enabled him to focus on Figma – no dilution, helped with network

YC is good for enterprise – sell B2B, get initial customers

// Elad – early YC Demo Days – only 10-15 angels in audience – had program to help educate angels

Useful to ask “why now” when you start a company
For Figma, in 2012, WebGL arrived, initially experimented with computational photography, then went into design
Thought it would only take 1 year, but took 2 – could have moved faster if they hired faster

Microsoft told them they had to start charging so they could spread it internally (at Microsoft) – knew then they had product market fit

Customer wrote 12 page document telling them what they should go build – another moment of product market fit – the market was there, was trying to pull product out of them

Never managed before Figma, it was tough as they scaled
Bringing first manager was catalytic – meant he could learn from the manager

// Elad: Bill Gates would hire COO, learn from him, then fire him and hire another one, learn from him, etc

Interesting areas
-people move in herds a lot – right now people excited about AI
-look for different under explored areas
-lots of good ideas out there – more important is find personal passion, if you’re 3 years into an idea you hate, you’ll burn out, happened with his friends

Thought he was late to crypto, but people tell him now he was early
Got emails in 2009 talking about bitcoin
In Thiel Fellowship – people were very excited about it (first bubble in 2013-ish)
Got more interested in Ethereum’s technology
Wife started crypto company Ironfish
They talked about crypto collectibles at time (digital items fascinated him)
He really liked to play NeoPets – virtual economy – felt exact same as Ethereum and NFTs
Buy things you’ll want to keep forever – only sold 2 NFTs in his life

Problems in crypto
-privacy very important – holding crypto is big security risk
-scalability taking off now
-regulation desperately needed – lack of it is blocking crypto’s advancement – especially in the US, crypto will move elsewhere if we don’t solve regulation

Every industry will be touched by AI
Pace is staggering
Completely new tooling method
Already world changing tech even if it stops improving
AGI is difficult to define – AI will make fundamental research contributions
By 2030, there will be AI co-author for pure math research journal

New version of Turing test – multiplayer AI – bunch of humans and AIs
// Elad – already happened with Cicero the strategy game

How will AI impact education
AI tutors and therapists will happen – but make it local not cloud based
Colleges are scared of ChatGPT – but if it’s copying essays and hurting education, isn’t that a deeper issue? You can already hire someone to write essays

University is multiple components – mating system, credentialing system, social club
As AI proliferates, credentialing decreases in value, social club aspect increases in value
// Elad – similar to what internet did to media – mid-tier outlets got hurt, big brands thrive
Wants online universities that are better than YouTube, more structured, more social

Don’t ignore power of a well-written cold email
Communities that were on Twitter are now going private
But find those communities, learn norms, be helpful
// Elad – help open source communities

Thiel Fellowship
Haven’t seen similar programs
Even Thiel applications, sometimes it’s hard to fill a class (of fellows)
Not enough people who are risk on, willing to drop out and commit

Doesn’t believe standardized testing is correlated with IQ as much as most of Silicon Valley thinks
Access to tutors, prep programs – equity component to this

// Elad – people who drop out to do startups, you gain an additional cycle of technology (eg, a few years of school, plus a few years of the first job), which is powerful experience

Still very focused on Figma
Interested in data visualization / doesn’t feel it’s done quite right

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My friend and I started a crypto podcast called Two Degens. We talk about markets and share interesting links and sometimes invite guests. You can listen to it here.

Podcast notes – Runway founder Cristobal Valenzuela – No Priors (Elad Gil and Sarah Guo): “You shouldn’t dismiss toys”

Guest: Cristobal Valenzuela, founder of RunwayML
From Chile
Studied business / econ
Experimented with computer vision models in 2015, 2016
Did NYU ITP program
Now running Runway

True creativity comes from looking at ideas, and adapting things

How does Runway work?
Applied AI research company
35 AI-powered “magic tools” – serve creative tasks like video or audio editing
Eg, rotoscoping
Also tools to ideate, generative images and video
“Help augment creativity in any way you want”

When started Runway, GANs just started, TensorFlow was one year old

First intuition – take AI research models, add a thin layer of accessibility, aimed at creatives
“App Store of models” – 400 models
Built SDK, rest API

Product sequencing – especially infrastructure – is really important aspect of startup building (what to build when)

Lot of product building is just saying no (eg, to customer requests) if it’s not consistent with your long-term plan

Understand who you’re building for – for them it’s creatives, artists, film makers

Models on their own are not products – nuances of UX, deployment, finding valuable use cases
Having control is key – understand your stack and how to fix it

Built AI research team – work closely with creatives, contributed to new AI breakthroughs
Takes time to do it right

Progression of AI researchers moving from academia to industry

Releasing as fast as you can, having real users is best way to learn

Small team that didn’t have a product lead until very recently

Rotoscoping / green screening is one of Runway’s magic tools
-trained a model to recognize backgrounds
first feature was very slow (4fps), but was still better than everything that existed

Runway is focused on storytelling business

Sarah — domains good for AI – areas where there’s built in tolerance for lower levels of accuracy

Product market fit is a spectrum

“You shouldn’t dismiss toys”

Mental models need to change to understand what’s happening (with generative AI)

Art is way of looking at and expressing view of world
Painting was originally the realm of experts, was costly, the skills were obscure

Models are not as controllable as we’d like them to be — but we’re super early

Podcast notes – Emad Mostaque (Stability AI and Stable Diffusion) – Elad Gil: Short form videos coming “within 2 years at high resolution quality”; “Run Stable Diffusion on your iPhone by next year”

(started notes around 20min in)

Bad guys have AI – they’ll create deep fakes
Community can come together to have counter measures

Elad: similar arguments to regulate cryptography in 90s

4chan has been “red teaming” trying to get the worst out of Stable Diffusion – and it’s not that bad

Especially for LLMs, should have more diverse data sets, have inter-governmental agency to monitor it

Have authenticity tool to verify source of every generated AI output

Generative AI – what are some use cases that should exist
Ali v Tyson live, Lebron v Michael Jordan
Emad wants to remake final season of Game of Thrones

Anyone can create their own models – any person, company, or culture

You need better data, more structured data
Extend models to run on edge – eg, anyone’s computers, iPhones
Make small customized models
“Run Stable Diffusion on your iPhone by next year”

Create national models and communities around them – let them leap frog ahead

Lots of emerging markets went from nothing to mobile phones, now can go to AI models on the edge

How far from short-form videos?
Phenaki, Google — getting close
Chaining these models together – they’re like parts of the brain
“Within 2 years at high resolution quality”

$100B into this sector in next 5 years

AI before today was qualified data science
Now it’s a new type of AI – not AGI yet, but incredibly small and powerful
By the time his daughter’s in university, doesn’t need to write essays

He aims (for Stable Diffusion) to be a layer 1 standardized infrastructure – create Schelling point
Mission is to “activate humanity’s potential”
Take it to India, Indonesia – give it to very smart young people to make their countries better

When AGI comes, I hope it thanks him for buying so many GPUs to help bring it into being

Many of Google’s “jobs to be done” will be displaced

Crypto is interesting – he’s in it since 2012 – focused on decentralized identity, zero knowledge proofs
“Nature of crypto is literally identity”
In a world of infinite content (AI), crypto identity is important
Need to be careful designing crypto economic systems

A year ago, if he said what they planned to do with SD, people would say he’s crazy
Surprised by how far they’ve come, the ability of others to contribute
The activation energy has been the most surprising – “they’re just excited”

“Probably see biggest breakthrough from a 16 year old in Uzbekistan” – the global open access nature of it

Will completely disrupt social networks – will move intelligence from the core to the edge
Apple is doing this – moving to AI – moving to edge

Opportunity to have personalized AIs that work for us and with us

SD is applying for B corp status – mission based
Plan to spin SD into different Foundations

Did investment round in August – didn’t give up any independence – did with investors that are open sourced and mission aligned

Which industries disrupted first?
-Call centers
-Powerpoint, forms of visual communication
-Artist won’t be that disrupted – will enable new forms of art

This tech is amazingly powerful

After releasing Stable Diffusion – people encoded it in Japanese – lots of use cases like this

So far governments have been very friendly

AI powered teaching – like Neal Stephenson’s Young Lady’s Primer

Moving forward, only release safe for work models

Licensing discussions should be more open

Will have models across all sorts of languages – recently released Korean model